Here are the slides from my talk from Congress. I am not going to write a great deal about these slides, for most of the information is actually better explained in my PERC paper and also better shown in my AAPT slides from that presentation. However, I wanted to record this presentation for posterity.
Then, I went on to talk about my research responding to these questions and if you are interested, I would love to send you more information about the model we are working on developing to integrate degradation, entropy and the second law of thermodynamics.
From UE1 and UE2, I found two videos that continued these ideas, and built upon them in new ways this year. In particular, the UE2 class was talking about where the thermal energy ends up - and how long it stays thermal. I have included both transcripts below because the videos are too long to attach to blogger. The videos are named:
1. UE1 120626 T2_Energy Dissipation.Subtitles
2. UE2 120627 1148 T3.Thermal.energy.dead.end.Subtitles
Transcript #1:
Lezlie: So, what now, is that asking me where does the energy go after that?
Marissa: Kinetic energy in particular, when it hits something, what's next?
[00:00:09.08] Hannah: Then what?
Lezlie: That's great.
[00:00:10.23] Hannah: It dissipates...it moves, it
Joel: Erodes.
[00:00:13.23] Hannah: Yah, I mean, there are cause and effects that we can see but what does that actually mean? What's it called? What is it transformed into?
[00:00:22.20] Lezlie: Right!
Hannah: It's not absorbed, because it has to continue on to go someplace doesn't it? Although batteries don't, so I mean. I don't know.
[00:00:33.16] Lezlie: I love that you're wondering though, that, there's something, I mean it says it has to go somewhere and where does it go?
[00:00:39.23] Lezlie: You've mentioned a few possibilities, it's dissipating somehow, but where and how and in what? Erosion, is, could be a part of that and yah! Cool!
[00:00:52.14] Hannah: We should put down some of ideas or questions. Like, write erosion...
[00:00:56.01] Marissa: Well, we're getting stuck too though on what is the difference between the ev-, physical evidence and the energy itself.
[00:01:02.06] Rosie: That's definitely where does the energy
[00:01:04.08] Marissa: Yah, me, too, because, Because erosion is our evidence right?
[00:01:09.20] Marissa: But where does the energy, I mean I guess there's some energy in there too. But what if it is a boat or a wall or I don't know?
[00:01:20.03] Hannah: It's still gonna erode a boat, the paint off the boat.
[00:01:22.17] Joel: Uh, it refracts, a wave, if it hits a wall it will just refract off of it and bounce back.
[00:01:28.04] Marissa: But is it the exact same amount though?
Joel: I don't think so. Probably not.
[00:01:31.05] Hannah: Right, mathematically it wouldn't-
Joel: I don't think, yah.
[00:01:34.05] Lezlie: So where do you think the rest of that energy went?
Hannah: but when they meet in the middle, what happens after that? ..still.Run into each other. ...They run into each other.
[00:01:42.21] Rosie: And then, because you never see-
Hannah: A backwards wave?
[00:01:47.03] Rosie, well, a wall, doing anything
Marissa: Yah, that's right.
[00:01:50.18] Rosie: Or you know what I mean. It's one thing to say a battery will just sit there or whatever but-
[00:01:55.19] Joel: So as it- as it- as it goes through this mass and hits every individual particle or whatever,
Rosie: (inaudible) trip?
[00:02:07.00] Joel: Does every single one, every SINGLE ONE take- yah, No, does every single thing take a little bit of energy away until it eventually dies off? Like less than zero.
[00:02:16.11] Hannah: No, but it can though, because look at batteries, a battery is stored energy, and when it's gone, it's gone,
Rosie: It's GONE!
[00:02:23.11] Hannah: it's gone somewhere, but it's gone.
Rosie: It's not really gone. It's just not there
[00:02:26.05] Lezlie: It's gone somewhere. It's just not in the battery anymore.
Rosie: Right, oh, but we just talked about dissipate, so that's the same thing as saying (Gestures hands apart)
[00:02:33.13] Joel: It's not like if a wave hits a wall that the whole wall is just going to go BURMP.
Rosie: (giggles)
[00:02:37.10] Joel: It's just doing it so, we can't actually see it, but maybe we can feel it, when it's a big wave we can feel it, right?
[00:02:44.09] Joel: If you're standing on a wall and a big wave hits something, or a rock or whatever, you can feel it so.
[00:02:51.16] Rosie: (inaudible) feel it if it was a wall...
[00:02:53.20]Hannah: Is it still erosion?
Lezlie: Uh huh. What else to you notice about when, when waves hit a solid object?
[00:03:00.17] Marissa: So like he said, it bounces back....
Lezlie: But what do you - think about using all of your senses.
[00:03:08.10] Marissa: Sound energy?
Rosie: Oh...
[00:03:10.24] Hannah: Oh! We just had a transformation, there's one.
[00:03:14.01] Marissa: Sound energy.
Hannah: And there', there is a heat transfer right? There are two separate temperatures.
[00:03:23.20] Rosie: But there can be partial, like he was saying. Some of it hit the wall, some of it refracts, some of it makes a sound.
[00:03:28.15] Joel: Some of it goes into the wall.
Rosie: Some of it, probably, yah, it kinda "C"s (inaudible? with hand gesture)
[00:03:33.12] Marissa: Maybe we should write this down.
Rosie: Yah I know, I was gonna say!
Joel: Do what now?
Hannah: It's not a word! I'm sure it's not.
[00:03:44.17] Marissa: And what else do we have?
Hannah: There has to be thermal because there's the heat
Joel: Thermal?
[00:03:51.02] Hannah: The heat of the land vs. the cool of the water?
Rosie: Should we take away our question marks and pretend that we solved it, even though she told us what the answer was?
[00:03:58.02] Hannah: Did she though?
Marissa: She guided us gently, or not so gently.
Joel: (We did it).
[00:04:05.06] I think some type of stored energy, or potential energy, or elastic or whatever they're saying.
Joel: For?
[00:04:13.26] Marissa: So these are transformations,
Hannah: Right
Marissa: and then are these transfeeeers?
[00:04:22.18] Hannah: I still don't know what the transfers are though.
Marissa: I don't know, I don't know anything about potential energy
[00:04:28.12] Lezlie: I think it's okay if you stop where you are.
Transcript #2:
Karen: And they [students] could notice that really, like when, if you pushed a ball across (gestures)
[00:00:05.26] Owen: Eventually it stops, that leads into the real question, so where does the energy go?
[00:00:10.25] Owen: I think it's a great segue, does the ball, you know, like you were saying, does the ball still have the energy? If not, where is it?
[00:00:21.09] Jean: So if we say that, so the energy then, when the ball has stopped, has turned into thermal, that's uh,like in the floor, or in the air or...so then-
[00:00:33.28] Owen: Or in the ball itself, which you're not going to be able to imagine, because it's so (weak?)
Brianna: They're going to have to believe you!
Owen: Yah
[00:00:39.10] Jean: So does energy ever just,( ) sit there and wait to go into another transformation or a transfer? I mean what-
[00:00:48.21] How long does it stay thermal before it moooves into something else?
[00:00:55.08] Brianna: I don't know that.
[00:00:58.25] Karen: Well, like, in the case of the hot plate-
Jean: Right!
[00:01:05.05] Karen: If it were plugged in
Jean: yah
[00:01:07.04] Karen: You know and so when, at what point, like is it a (tachimulch) thing, at what point is there no thermal energy left in that hot plate?
[00:01:17.06] Brianna: Where does it go after that?
Jean: Well, like, does it just sit and wait? And how long can something have, you know,
[00:01:24.27] Jean: How long can something just stay thermal? Can it stay thermal for days? Can it um, or what does it, what does it do? I've done it before where I heat up-
[00:01:36.21] Karen: Now that the energy doesn't have, once the thermal has gone somewhere else?
[00:01:43.16] Jean: Well, yah, so let's, you know I've done it, I've done it before where I turn the hot plate on and we boil water. So the kids are watching you know the steam and all that.
[00:01:53.25] Jean: They're seeing it go up in the air. And then, you know and so yah, we do stop at heat energy, and then we stop. I guess-
[00:02:09.13] Brianna: It's just sitting there.
Jean: It's just sitting there! Yah, so how long does it sit there? I mean, I wonder if anyone has looked at-
[00:02:19.03] Brianna: Oh I'm sure there's a real answer.
Jean: Yes.
Brianna: Yah. um.
[00:02:27.25] Karen: And she has it but (inaudible).
Jean: won't tell us. yah. ((laughs))
[00:02:31.17] Owen: I think essentially it continues to travel. And and and and
[00:02:37.16] Owen: but its, and the body of atmosphere that its affecting becomes greater and greater and greater the more that it travels so the, the impact of it becomes more and more negligible.
[00:02:48.28] Brianna: It's definitely (inaudible)
Jean: Right right right. But I suppose it's always changing it's always either heating up or cooling off, or part of wind or you know, it's always-
[00:03:02.04] Owen: It's what causes wind resistance.
Jean: doing something like that.
Brianna: Me moving my pencil across the wind.
[00:03:08.01] (laughter)
Owen: Well what's that, the flap of the butterfly wing in the jungle of the Amazon, leads to-
[00:03:18.12] Jean: So does that mean that the majority of the energy is thermal.
[00:03:21.14] Owen: Well the idea that came up yesterday was that ultimately it all goes-
Jean: to thermal!
Owen: (inaudible) to thermal.
Karen: All the energy ends there.
[00:03:27.14] Jean: yah, and must start, no.
Karen: and it's never-
((Eleanor comes over to the group.))
[00:03:31.27] Owen: So, where does all the thermal energy go? How loooooong is it there?
[00:03:38.04] Jean: How long does it stay thermal?
Eleanor: How long is it where?
[00:03:40.28] Owen: THERE ((gestures))
Eleanor: There. How long does it stay thermal?
Jean: yah.
[00:03:44.08] Eleanor: That's a really good question. I don't have - I don't have an answer to that question. Um.
[00:03:52.04] Eleanor: I would, I would need you to like break it into subquestions you know and be like, so in this example, what, where does the thermal energy go?
[00:03:58.04] Eleanor: Where does the thermal- cause sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it-
Brianna: Cause KIDS would want to know that.
[00:04:01.22] Eleanor: I want to know that! It's a good question! I like it!
Brianna: Yah, yah, Kay.
[00:04:06.26] Eleanor: Yah, thermal, thinking about that kind of question about thermal energy I think is key to believing or not believing in energy as a useful idea.
[00:04:15.05] Eleanor: That energy as a model, the conservation of energy is a useful idea.
Owen: Especially the conservation aspect of it.
[00:04:20.03] Eleanor: Yes.
Jean: mmm hmmm.
[00:04:20.29] Eleanor: yah, I think that's why Cherry is not convinced. She's like, yah, yah sure right, it's all still there somewhere.
[00:04:26.08] Jean: You know, I was, I was saying that when I have done units on energy, uh, so I have taken a hot plate, turned it on, and boiled water.
[00:04:35.08] Jean: and so we're talking about the energy transfers and transformations going on, but we always stop at heat energy and then we stop, like, like it's over.
[00:04:43.14] Owen: When everything's warm.
Jean: Like, like the energy has- it's complete,
Eleanor: (inaudible)
[00:04:48.04] Jean: yah like it's done.
Karen: Has that ever come up? I mean,
Jean: It's never come up, uh uh, yah, well, no I mean yah, ((laughs))
[00:04:53.22] Brianna: Thank goodness! ((laughter))
Jean: Yah, so I was thinking we act like,
[00:04:58.14] Jean: Oh ok, so we followed the energy path and, and it's done and then I, you know, and then I thought wow, wait a minute!
[00:05:05.19] Karen: Then you're sitting there wondering where-
Jean: It's not really done cause it's always there. But yah.
[00:05:12.29] Karen: But weren't you asking at what point is it not, thermal energy anymore? At what point is it not there?
[00:05:19.18] Jean: My question was, So how long does, um, can energy stay the same thing in the thermal stage? Like, is it DAYS or is that unrealistic?
[00:05:32.25] Jean: Or- you know I mean does it, because as soon as it changes, um, like with the wind, some of it is going to become sound energy and
[00:05:43.00] Jean: I don't know. I was just- It just made me wonder, what the life, the shelf-life is of thermal?
[00:05:48.18] Owen: Yah, is it the shelf-life of Twinkies? Or-
Jean: Yah! ((Laughter))
Eleanor: Forever.
[00:05:53.03] Owen: And with yesterday's proposition that all energy ultimately is converted or transferred into thermal. So then, you know, there's this- so how long, how how long does thermal energy last?
[00:06:06.14] Jean: Or if you were going to categorize energy would um, the largest percentage be thermal, and this percentage is sound, and this percentage is kinetic and this-
[00:06:16.14] Eleanor: and that's energy in the entire universe?
[00:06:17.25] Jean: Yah, yah, if you categorize it. It seems like it would mostly be sa- thermal then, cause that's where everybody, everything ends.
[00:06:24.18] Eleanor: Ends up. Yah.
Owen: Yah but space is really cold.
[00:06:27.23] Eleanor: Cold right.
Owen: So if that's supposed to be where the thermal energy is ultimately getting to, why is it so cold out there?
I didn't get a chance to share these slides, but I thought I would attach them anyway! The UE1 Believe video is the dissipation one from above. The idea of the slide below is that the teachers continued to ask similar questions, but also included additional questions about the "ends" of processes.
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