I have been thinking about the moves that teachers make to shape group discussions. In Modeling Instruction they call this Discourse Manangement, but I think it's a strategy that pretty much every instructor uses. Basically, once students have shared ideas, or conclusions, we often want to come to some kind of consensus using a discussion, and (most of the time) instructors have an idea of what consensus they'd like to arrive at (i.e. one that is closer to ideas accepted by the scientific community). We have a variety of tools available at our disposal, such as making connections between various students' ideas, pointing out implications of their ideas, or showing where they contradict previously established knowledge.
Some instructors are more adept at this than others - they can make it seem like the new ideas or connections they are presenting are really those of the student. We've all been in a class where this goes badly - a professor seems to want the students to think the idea came from them, but they are either confused by the idea, or reject it, which in either case would demonstrate to the students (and me) that the idea under discussion is clearly not their idea.
I think that we tend to value instructors who can do this well, in that they present new information that is seamlessly added on to student ideas. I also think that some people value instructors who can shape the conversation so that the new information is not added on, but actually seems to come from the class themselves. Note that I don't have evidence for this right now, because I think video data would more easily show when instructors don't finesse it well, and students are resistant, rather then when instructors pull this off.
My stance: it seems like a bad thing if instructors can pull this off, and and a bad thing if their desire to make their ideas appear to come from the students. In a traditional classroom, the students know the instructor is in charge and providing the ideas, but in an inquiry classroom, the message conveyed is that the students' ideas are at the forefront. If we represent to students that they are in charge, but they aren't, it is disingenuous. Right now my thinking about this has been from a moral standpoint (is it right or wrong) but another way to view it is empirically - we could figure out which way helps students learn more.
Rachel points out that people are very good at detecting when other people are disingenuous, which would mean that students are very good at detecting when their instructors are trying to pretend that instructor ideas are student ideas. If this is the case, then my concern is unnecessary.
I suppose it's possible that if students feel they are in charge, and this encourages them to speak up more and participate more and therefore think more, then this would be a good thing and would improve learning. The problem is that (as Rachel says) students are hard to fool -- especially if you want to fool them on a daily basis for a whole semester. The scheme only works if the students are actually fooled; otherwise it just undermines the trust in the classroom. I'm guessing there is a literature on the trust between students and instructors -- it seems like a thing researchers would care about.
ReplyDeleteI tend to feel that authenticity and trust are crucial. After all, the instructor is asking students to take an imaginative journey through a weird and sometimes confusing terrain with an uncertain destination, and on any journey you want to be able to trust your guide. If the guide seems manipulative and deceitful, the travelers might give up.
My thoughts on this are that it's the quality of ideas that matters to students, not necessarily their source. If a teacher is successful at planting a high quality idea with students, such that it appears to come from them, then everyone wins. The students feel successful in coming up with a good idea and the teacher is able to move the class in a direction she wants to go.
ReplyDeleteIf, on the other hand, the teacher is not successful at "hiding" the source of the idea and everyone knows it came from the teacher, there may be a brief moment of disillusionment, but I don't think there is a complete break-down of trust. Students know that the teacher's job is to guide the class in a particular direction and that sometimes the guiding is done more explicitly than at other times.
The situation that would most interfere with learning (I think) is if the teacher were to abdicate their role of guiding for a long period of time, letting unproductive threads of conversation take up too much "air time". I don't think that a teacher needs to control the conversation at all times (or even participate), but they need to have an idea in general where the lesson is going and then help the class get there.
I guess I don't see there being a moral issue in disguising the source of an idea (well or poorly) as long as it is a means to an end in accomplishing the learning goals.
Renee Michelle, I share your concern. I'm wondering what initiated this post for you -- whether there was something you saw in UE1 that 'made you think.' If so, I'd love to know more.
ReplyDeleteRenee Michelle,
ReplyDeleteI am not sure if this is in line with what you are writing about - but I feel like it is hard to "plant" an idea in a student's head, without them being on board. What I mean is that teachers who appear to give ideas to students might just be giving guidance at the right time to the right students. I think it is hard to sneak an idea into a head, without the head being on board.
I also think that students who are guided to rediscover ideas that their teacher already knew but that they put together for themselves still feel as though they have accomplished something wonderful. Being told an idea and owning that idea are very different, at least for me. Even if I know that I have been lead to the water, it still tastes amazing to drink it up.
Does this relate to what you are saying at all?
I think that this is a really interesting issues. I'm curious, RMG, to hear your opinions on distinguishing between gaining information and using information. For exampe, in UE, we had to give the teachers the idea of conservation of enter, however it was their responsibility to use that idea during ET. I would argue that part of the learning process involves using information and determining when and where it is applicable.
ReplyDeleteI think it's fine for teachers to offer students ideas, and to guide the discussion into productive territory as they see fit. I also agree with Abby that students are the ones who decide to take up an idea or not, so you can't just plant it on them without their participation. I was thinking that Renee Michelle was trying to make a point not about whether instructors can or should give ideas to students - they can to some extent, and sometimes they should. I was thinking that the question was: If an instructor successfully plants an idea with students, should the instructor then try to make it seem like it was the student's idea, in order to help students believe that they can contribute significantly to the science they are experiencing?
ReplyDeleteI think that learners can make genuine original contributions to the science they are experiencing. I think it is an important goal for them to believe that they can do that. I think it's fantastic for instructors to look for opportunities to showcase ideas as having come from learners. I think it's very challenging for instructors to be on the lookout for original, worthwhile ideas that learners generate, what with everything else instructors need to be doing. It would be so much easier to plant an idea that is familiar for the instructor, and then pretend it's original from the students. But I think that's cheating. I think that if an instructor's goal is to highlight original contributions from the students, that instructor has the extra job of being genuinely alert to those genuinely original contributions.
"Rachel points out that people are very good at detecting when other people are disingenuous, which would mean that students are very good at detecting when their instructors are trying to pretend that instructor ideas are student ideas. If this is the case, then my concern is unnecessary."
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't think so. I think people are good at detecting when other people are being disingenuous, but they don't know what they are being disingenuous ABOUT. You just know that something is not right. So I think there is stil cause for concern.
Abby's comment is really helpful to me in sorting this out. Just because you know what answer students are going to come up with doesn't necessarily mean they aren't coming up with it themselves. I can watch a student discover an idea and know exactly where they are going to go, but knowing this, and even guiding them, doesn't detract from them truly discovering it for themselves. Where this becomes problematic is when I am so focused on the idea that I want them to discover that I lose focus of what is actually going on for them.
ReplyDeleteThere are different levels of attention to student ideas, ranging from ignoring them, to paying attention to them only to look for misconceptions, to paying attention to them to look for productive resources that might help them to get to the right answer, to paying attention to them for their own sake in a way that they are actually more important for learning than the right answer. Each of these levels corresponds to a very different model of what learning is.
I think it is possible to have a model of valuing student ideas for their own sake, but still often end up guiding them to the correct answer. Where it gets deceptive is if you are pretending to value their ideas for their own sake, but actually your only goal is to get them to the right answer. I think if there is anything "wrong" with this, it's that you're telling students you value their ideas, but may subtly dismiss some of them that you don't see as productive for the right answer.
There were so many great comments on this, it's hard to know where to begin.
ReplyDeleteTo answer Amy, I saw an instructor guide a class discussion in a way that the ideas clearly came from the instructor, and I think the class recognized that. This started me thinking about when something different happens - when an instructor introduces the idea but tries to make it appear that it comes from the students.
To answer Brandon and Abby, I don't have a problem with instructors giving students information, and I think if the students are ready for that information, they can readily take it up and make it their own.
Rachel and Sam are getting at some of my concern - if you say to students you value their ideas, but instead try to pass off your ideas as theirs, you are being disingenuous, and if they realize it, they will mark you as disingenuous, and you will communicate to them that you don't actually value their ideas.
Also, I think evidence for this kind of thing is quite hard to find.